Describing the case of National Reconciliation Ordinance (NRO) and Swiss court 'history', President Asif Ali Zardari on Saturday said Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) will not try the grave of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto, come what may. 'It is a point of principle that Pakistan Peoples Party will not try the grave of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto Shaheed, come what may. It is not my decision. It is decision of the party. It is not about me, it is about we,' President Zardari said in an interview with a private television channel (GEO) aired on Saturday night. During the interview, the President spoke at length on various issues of national and international importance ranging from domestic political situation, relations between state institutions and ties with India, China and US.


When asked whether the government will not write a letter to Swiss authorities because of article 248 of the constitution, the President said, 'It is not because of article 248 but I am saying that I do not want to be written in history and my Prime Minister does not want to get it written in history' that their government wrote the letter.

'Twelve to 15 months are left in my presidentship and after that any government can come and write the letter. Why my government should write it?'

He said, 'First understand that the case is about the trial of grave of BB Sahiba. Allah has given her martyrdom and people and the last court have declared that Benazir is innocent. It is our faith that allegation cannot be levelled against a martyr. After making her martyr, even then if a trial is held, then Pakistan Peoples Party considers it the trial of martyrs.'

When asked when he will not be President then a trial will be held, he said, 'if somebody else wants to commit this sin, let him do it.'
The President said it is not him but the party which wants that the letter should not be written.

'I do not want this but the party wants it. There are things which I may like to be done differently but I have to accept the decision of the party.'

When he was asked that PPP leader Aitzaz Ahsan says that if a letter is written to Swiss authorities, it will not be a problem, President Zardari responded that it is individual position of Aitzaz Ahsan and not the decision of the Central Executive Committee of the party. The President about the slogan of 'Aik Zardari sub pay bhari,' said he is not dominant on anybody and he has banned the slogan in the party.

'It will be written on my grave, here lies the servant of the people. We will work and will do favour to our own graves,' he remarked.

To a question about his health, the President said his condition is a lot better now.

'Your muscle gets pulled sometimes,' he said in a lighter vein adding, 'at the age of 57 when you are doing a stressful job it can happen. And I continue working till four in the morning and it affects. I have party work, people to meet, protocol, so everything.'

While replying to a question as to why he is seeking justice from the Chief Justice in the case of martyrdom of Benazir Bhutto, he said, 'the lower judiciary which is under the Chief Justice has to decide this case.'

FIA has submitted the challans and cases are in courts but four judges hearing the case have been changed, he added.

President Zardari said according to the law, if there is no decision in a case for two years, then the person has the right for bail.

He referred to the case of former Minister for Religious Affairs Hamid Saeed Kazmi in a lower court for one and a half year, in which no decision has been made so far.

'Hamid Saeed Kazmi is a respectable person and he feels he is not guilty and should be released on bail,' he added.

The President rejected the idea that Rehman Malik, Babar Awan or Farhatullah Babar or other PPP leaders were somehow responsible for the lack of security of Benazir Bhutto on the fateful day of December 27, 2007 when she was martyred.

'It is very easy to talk but I can understand the situation. When the blast took place, BB came inside (the car). First I am asking those who were raising slogans, why they were raising slogans. When the meeting has ended, you should leave the place. You finish, you know it is a dangerous point.'
The President said he was the last person or a journalist, who talked to Benazir Bhutto and she was telling him that it is necessary for her to go to the people.

He recalled that Benazir Bhutto did not accept his advice as his original programme was that she should stay at home and let him address the public meetings, where he will get the same response as given to her.

Those who killed Benazir Bhutto were very cunning and they would not have killed him as by doing that they did not want to give strength to Benazir Bhutto, he added.

Without giving a name, the President said, the public meeting in Rawalpindi was organized by only one person, as other party leaders including Rehman Malik were against holding of the meeting.

He said when Benazir Bhutto was coming to Pakistan from Dubai, he tried to stopped her.

'I stopped her in this way that I sat with my children in front of her and said that these are decisions of life. I told the children that take care of your mother and stop her. There are cruel enemies and the situation is not good for BB to go back to Pakistan. They all told her but BB did not accept their request.'The President in response to a question, said he still maintains that he knew the murderers of Benazir Bhutto.

He said he established the connection till Baitullah Mahsud.'The entire organization of Baitullah Mahsud admits it. I do not regard Mahsud tribesmen as the killers of Benazir Bhutto. Some of the Mahsuds are ours. There is a group among the Mahsud tribe who had done it. They accept it today. But I did not accept it. I did not bus-stop there, I did not full stop there. I put a coma and then go forward,' he said while discussing the mindset which was behind the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.

Referring to a book of Condoleeza Rice, he said, there is some hint in that book as to who were the plotters.

He mentioned that he sent the case of investigation of murder of Benazir Bhutto to United Nations but then he rejected its report as he thought that the world body did not provide justice.

While referring to the testimony of Mark Seigel according to which Benazir Bhutto said if something happens to her, Pervez Musharraf will be responsible for it.

'It is part of the FIR why the judge is not taking action on it,' the President asked.

The President said it is not true that PPP gave guard of honour to former President Musharraf when he left the President House. 'That is not true. First of all I was not the President.'

He said the presidential officials who gave him (Musharraf) an honourable send off, they cannot be blamed.

'They do not come under the command of anybody else, Presidency is under the command of its ownself. There is Presidential Regiment, there is Presidential Guard.'

He said it was not considered appropriate by the political forces to put Pervez Musharraf on trial and he was allowed to leave after he left power through dialogue.

'I did not want that our army, my army, your army which is under attack from both sides in this big war against terrorism, get demoralized,' he said while giving reason for not putting Pervez Musharraf on trial.

The trial would have demoralized the institution of army, he said, adding, putting Pervez Musharraf on trial for violating article 6 and putting him on trial for not providing security to Benazir Bhutto are two different matters.

'Why I will put him on trial? Parliament will put him on trial. I have handed over all the powers to the parliament. It is the first historical moment that any President instead of usurping the powers, handed over its power to the parliament. It is not the parliament of Peoples party, all the parties are together in the parliament. I thing collective wisdom will prevail,' he further said.

When asked to comment on his joining hands with Chaudhry Shujaat, President of PML-Q, he said, Pakistan Peoples Party is the largest party with following from Kashmir to Gilgit Baltistan.

'If I will close the doors, then where the people will go. We look at the situation. Ask Chaudhry Sahib that in 1989 during the life time of Shaheed Benazir Bhutto, we were near to a compromise but it could not be finalized,' he said while recalling his party's efforts to reconcile with the Chaudhry brothers.
The President said he is ready to meet and shake hands with PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif.

He said his doors are open for talks with everybody. 'Politically, you always need support. I need the support of even a small voter not only Nawaz Sharif.'
The President said it cannot be denied that Nawaz Sharif started his politics with Zia ul Haq.

He said giving extension to General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani is a question of history.

After the 18th amendment, the Prime Minister gives the extension and the President just signs. The Prime Minister works with collective wisdom, he added.

He asked when the extension to the army chief was given, the opposition should have agitated if they had complaints. At least they should have passed a resolution in the Punjab assembly to show their non-acceptance and seriousness about the issue.The President when asked why he filed the reference in court for getting justice for Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, said, 'This is also decision of the party and wish of Benazir Bhutto.'

He said Benazir Bhutto wanted to file the reference but could not do it.

'Both the Presidents that she made, one was Ghulam Ishaq Khan and he would not do it. And the second came and he did not give BB the protocol that was due to her,' he noted.

The President agreed that PIA, Railways and other institutions are weakening.

'I have given all powers to the parliament and now I have to evolve the parliament. If I call the meeting of the Finance Ministry and ask them to do this and that, then the parliament will not evolve.'

He said he will start interacting with the media to answer their questions.

He pointed 500,000 to 700,000 people came to Garhi Khuda Bakhsh despite ticker politics and four years of his character assassination which he let it happen and did not say a word to anybody.

President Zardari said he asked former finance minister Shaukat Tareen to buy planes when they were cheap but instead he went to make a business plan and in the meanwhile those same planes got expensive.

Third world countries get less opportunities like that, he remarked.

He said the Turkish airlines, the third largest airline in the world first wanted to fly to 17 destinations to Pakistan but then they agreed for a code sharing with PIA but some interest groups sabotaged the plan and kicked their own stomach.

The President rubbished the allegation that her sister wanted to run an airline and said he will ask the Defence Minister to cancel the license of Indus airline.
To a question about gas shortages, he said Minister for Petroleum Dr. Asim Hussain is a technocrat and a capable person with business acumen, who has been running the largest group of hospitals in Pakistan.

When asked why Dr Zulfikar Mirza left him, the President recited the couplet, 'Dekha jo tir kha kay kameengah ki tarf, Apnay hi dastaoun say multakat hogai.'

'I don't know how he broke away and who broke him away. But I know that this must have happened first time in history. I am not ready to believe that anybody can break him.'

To a question about Shah Mehmood Qureshi, he said Shah Mehmood Qureshi was taking a political position on issues.

'He was not a friend and he was in the party. If I have sent him by making him leader of the house, he would not have talked like this. I made him the foreign minister, but it is saying of Hazrat Ali (RA) that be fearful of the person, whom you do a favour. In my view, he could not digest that he was not made the prime minister,' he added.

He said the country's nuclear programme was not under his control and he gave away his powers to the parliament two years back and he asks people of Pakistan to decide about what Shah Mehmood Qureshi was saying.

To a question about Aitzaz Ahsan, President Zardari said Aitzaz is an experienced and knowledgeable person.

'Whoever will go somewhere, he will not get that respect which is in his parent party. The respect given to Javed Hashmi (in Tehrik-e-Insaf) is short lived. Javed Hashmi was not getting respect where he was that's why he went there. If Javed Hashmi had come to us we would have accepted him without thinking. It is his choice to go where he wanted,' he added.The President in response to a question whether party of Imran Khan was supported by a faction of the establishment, said it is beneficial and not harmful if more politicians are in the field, despite the fact whether a faction is bringing them or not.
Imran Khan has a donor community on which he has been working for 20 years, he added.

The President said, 'Nawaz Sharif gave him (Imran) a plot, then he came to us that no taxes should be imposed on his machinery so that his hospital is established with less expenses.'

'Then he came on the roads and went to children. So the donor has a grassroots approach. So now he has converted the local and international donors into donor for politics. So now they have money and they think that he can become prime minister and can run the country.'

'I have no objection if somebody expresses the desire that he wants to come into politics. I have only one difference with him that when Bhutto sahib came he brought in 99 percent new people. You want to bring 96 percent old people, who have left four parties. And you say you will bring change. The first definition of change is that you bring new people. So you bring new people and people will vote.'

When asked to comment on the statement of Imran Khan that he cannot find angels to bring in his party, Zardari said, 'Did Bhutto sahib brought angels? You remember Bhutto sahib put whom against whom. It was a storm. I have called them zoonamy and they are calling themselves tsunami. They should bring in people, which they have. During their public meetings they have people who can't sit due to lack of chairs.'

He said everybody who went to Petaro was not his friend. Masood Sharif is not his friend and was just an acquaintance.

To a question, he said, he knew Benazir Bhutto more than anybody else. 'Anybody who claims that he knew Benazir Bhutto more than me, I think he should rethink.'

He said Pakistan can become a strong nation if a foundation is laid by curing the pains afflicting it. The President in response to a question as if the memo issue was a watergate scandal for the government, the President said, 'if a person is guilty, why he will come back?. He could have said that I do not want to come. 'When asked as to why a legal action was not taken when the article (about memo) came in the Financial Times, the President said he asked the legal firm there for legal action, adding, 'but it was not in the interest of Pakistan. ''There are many things, which will keep opening up pandora boxes. I do not think, the government, democracy and Pakistan would have gained anything from it. I was not saving anybody's neck, I was saving the country,' he maintained. To a question as to why Hussain Haqqani was in contact with Mansoor Ijaz, a person for whom Shaheed Benazir Bhutto had said in 1995 in US that he (Mansoor Ijaz) should not be trusted, the President said as an ambassador it was his (Hussain Haqqani) job to meet anybody who has influence in America. The President, however, added that he did not ask him. To another question about the difference of opinion between the civilian and military leadership on the memo issue, the President said, 'I think we are playing into the hands of those who want to harm Pakistan and eventually Pakistan will be hurt. 'About the memo case, and being investigated by the Parliamentary Committee on National Security and by a Commission constituted by the Supreme Court the President said, 'Let the two decisions come'. He said, 'In my view the Parliament is sovereign. About his article in the Washington Post after the Abbottabad operation and the criticism of PML-N leaders on it, the President said, 'First read the article. Osama Bin Laden will not be my ideal, my ideal will be Aun San Su Kyi or BB. He (Osama Bin Laden) was not my ideal. ''I did not go to the mountains with a Kalashnikov and I am telling the Balochs to come down from the mountains. Neither I want to show expressions after killing people. Violence is not means to an end as far as Pakistan Peoples Party is concerned. I do not consider him hero,' he added. To a question about the Prime Minister's statement in the National Assembly regarding a state within state, the President said, Gilani is a powerful prime minister, adding, 'He (Gilani) does not feel under anybody. If there is some kind of position which is annoying him, he has the right to take a position and he has taken a position. 'About the Prime Minister's statement as to who gave visa to Osama, the President said, 'It is said in the media that Osama was in Pakistan for seven years. He (Gilani) talked about that and he was talking about Pervez Musharraf why you are pointing it towards the army. 'To a question as if somebody asked him to resign and take leave after the situation of memogate, the President said, 'I don't think there is anybody so innocent that he will ask me for resignation. ''Allah may not bring such a time....., You have seen me in jail. You have seen me in sick jails and healthy jails. And what anybody will do by taking my resignation. I have given the powers to the parliament,' the President remarked and questioned 'how will take them away from the parliament?'.

When asked as if escape was not an option for him in national interest, the President said, 'Why should it be?'. 'Escape in national interest? So I am hindrance,' he remarked.

To yet another query as if he was sure that nobody asked for a resignation from him, the President said, 'Nobody asked for it but if somebody asked I will tell you. 'The President when asked as if the holding of two offices, the President of Pakistan and Co-Chairman of PPP, had created any controversies, said, 'I don't think so.'

'It is a party of the federation and his (position) is a federal position. And there is no article that he should be non-politician. I do not consider myself like Quaid-e-Azam but everybody always talks about constitution and that he gave rights.'

'Quaid-e-Azam also did not leave it. And the thing is simple. This is not an office of benefit. He was the founder of Pakistan. I am talking about the party which kept the federation alive. I am not getting any money for the job. It is not the job of any perks. I spend,' he maintained.

To a question about his promise of visiting Punjab and sitting with the people of province and resolving their problems, the President cited security reasons.

'There was security risk in Punjab. My security is also important that was one of the dimensions,' he said, however, adding. 'But as you know my sister is sitting in Lahore for a month. And this promise is continuing.'

To a question as if the PPP was going to hold Senate elections in February, the President said, 'It is not our government. The government is of Peoples Party, MQM, ANP and members of FATA...,even if Peoples Party makes a decision, after that we have to go to them. And this topic was not discussed with any of them.'

About the talks of early elections, the President said 'political forces should not be afraid of elections, neither we are afraid of them. So elections can be held any time, but it has to be with consensus of the parliament and consensus of our co partners. Once they will agree then we will talk to the opposition.'
To a question as if he was prepared to talk to the opposition on early elections, the President said he was prepared to talk to the opposition on every subject.

When asked as on what slogan or on which performance the PPP will ask the people to vote for them, the President said, 'Roti, Kapra Aur Makan.'
To a question about inflation and energy problems, the President remarked, 'Before this programme goes live, do a programme on Benazir Income Support Programme (BISP) of Farzana Raja, you will see that in every taluka and district, there are millions of beneficiaries of BISP.'

'You can't see it and the beneficiaries are getting Rs. three thousand per month and it is given to a woman. And this is such an organization which is accepted by the World Bank and Asian Development Bank,' he mentioned.

The President referred to the challenges faced by the government including rains, floods and international meltdown and said. 'despite that I am keeping the economy afloat. No meltdown came here, yes there is inflation and we took the programme of IMF.'

He also mentioned the use of gas cylinders in the vehicles and termed it dangerous. He, however, added, 'We will bring more gas. Bhutto sahib and BB sahiba made promises, and I have fulfilled almost all their promises. If you will see from my eyes, you will see everything,' he remarked.

About the difference of opinion among various political forces on the issue of new provinces, the President said, 'Why you call an argument a fight....,It happens in politics.'

When asked as if new provinces essential for Pakistan, the President was of the view that there was a movement going on and 'there is pain in South Punjab that they want to be separate from Central Punjab, Takht-e-Lahore.'

'If a federal party will not give ownership to it, then a small party or a fundamentalist party will do it and it will be a dangerous thing. Economic unit will be made for the people of Hazara. We can talk to ANP,' he added.

To a question as to what vision he had for the future of his children as well as for Pakistan, the President said, '.... I think of Pakistan as a force multiplier and if we turn left towards China, we are a force multiplier for them, if we turn right towards India, we are a force multiplier. Our founder Shaheed Zulfikar Ali Bhutto showed us the path. He talked about 'Look East'.

'There is no president or prime minister in the past, which has undertaken so many trips to China. I have created a goodwill in China. There were relations in the past but this time the goodwill is for commerce, this time the goodwill is for business relationship and to make sure that they do business. And I think that in future they will be with us in every thing,' he maintained.

When asked as of he sees a bright future for Pakistan, the President said, 'I see human resource as positive. Some of what I said was accepted and you have remittance of six billion. So I think Pakistan is destined to succeed. We are going to be a great nation. And we are going to a commercially and financially viable nation.'

To a question regarding clash of institutions, the President said, 'You think it is fight but I call it part of the evolution. This fight will evolve and then it will simmer down. It will continue to evolve.'

'We and GEO had a fight. For four years, they did my character assassination, I let them do it. I did not take you to the court and I did not say anything to you. Then I did a public meeting and showed that see you cannot weaken me. Now come and sit so we can talk and hold dialogue. Politicians always talk,' he remarked.

To another question, the President said, 'We have no fight with the court and the army. There is no fight, I can't see it.'